MyEclipse: why php ?

dombat1 - Jul 16, 2003 - 08:50 AM
Post subject: why php ?
Hi

Why is this site in php ?

Coudn't you, as most of your customers, have a J2EE site ???

Dom
support-scott - Jul 16, 2003 - 03:07 PM
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I was wondering if/when someone would ask that. :-)

Yeah, you'd think that, especially since we have deep J2EE experience in house and relatively little PHP experience. Remember though that we're big productivity zealots. When we looked at content management solutions, PHP (postNuke and others) are really very simple to install, customize, and administer. They're still a generation ahead of anything we found in the Java space, and it's free. This entire site is the work of one person, working part time on it. I think that speaks volumes about the productivity difference and since we're spending our money on it, we went with the solution that provided our customers the best experience and ourselves the lowest total cost of ownership.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support
jimk - Jul 28, 2003 - 02:11 AM
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Just for the record - The Eclipse download section is PHP based.
mvfranz - Aug 20, 2003 - 03:43 PM
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Is the slowness of the site related to using PHP or just the lack of hardware?

Michael
support-scott - Aug 20, 2003 - 04:15 PM
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Michael,

Good question. It's actually do to the high demand, which you could then trace back to more hardware needed. We'll be shutting down over the weekend of the 29th to move the site to larger boxes to address the issue. This will certainly increase the capacity during peek load times. Of course the site will never be as fast as static HTML simply because the myeclipseide site is all dynamically generated but it should improve a good bit from where it is now.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support
mvfranz - Aug 20, 2003 - 05:54 PM
Post subject:
scott wrote:
Michael,

Good question. It's actually do to the high demand, which you could then trace back to more hardware needed. We'll be shutting down over the weekend of the 29th to move the site to larger boxes to address the issue. This will certainly increase the capacity during peek load times. Of course the site will never be as fast as static HTML simply because the myeclipseide site is all dynamically generated but it should improve a good bit from where it is now.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support
It is good to see that there is a high demand for this product. I have not been able to use it yet, but it looks like it will make my life easier. I currently have to install a bunch of plug-ins to get the functionality I need.

Michael
support-scott - Aug 20, 2003 - 06:13 PM
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Quote:

I currently have to install a bunch of plug-ins to get the functionality I need.

Your life just got a LOT easier. Be sure to install it on a CLEAN version of Eclipse 2.1.1 though. We don't want the "plugin soup" you're currently using to interfere. This will also give you a chance to test your old environment and your new MyEclipse environment side by side without risking any disruption.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support
robvarga - Aug 22, 2003 - 03:35 PM
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scott wrote:
Quote:

I currently have to install a bunch of plug-ins to get the functionality I need.

Your life just got a LOT easier. Be sure to install it on a CLEAN version of Eclipse 2.1.1 though. We don't want the "plugin soup" you're currently using to interfere. This will also give you a chance to test your old environment and your new MyEclipse environment side by side without risking any disruption.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support


Well that was a bit unprofessional. Let him install the plugin soup, just he should not complain about issues where some other plugin is making the problem. Your company is being criticized on eclipse-plugins.2y.net guestbooks about being condescending and hostile with regard to Lomboz.

I don't claim that you are, but this comment really was a bit unwarranted, I think, since your software is supposed to be professionally written and not supposed to take interference from other plugins. If it is, then there is a question of the responsibility of (at least documenting) it.
support-scott - Aug 22, 2003 - 03:54 PM
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Quote:

Well that was a bit unprofessional. Let him install the plugin soup, just he should not complain about issues where some other plugin is making the problem.

Actually, I have to disagree. I advice I gave was very professional as a technical support representative of our product. If he was to experience any kind of problem when he installed MyEclipse on whatever he's currently running, what do you think he'd do? He'd go to where he'd get support, which is here. At that point someone on our staff would then have to determine what type of odd interaction problem he's experiencing. Frankly, this costs quite a bit of money to do and we just can't afford to test and diagnose every single interaction problem, with every possible installation configuration, that anyone might encounter. I was simply giving the poster advice that would ensure that he encountered a minimum of problems.

Quote:

Your company is being criticized on eclipse-plugins.2y.net guestbooks about being condescending and hostile to Lomboz.

I think you might be a little oversensitive. If you'll read the thread carefully, neither the original poster nor I mentioned any other products at all. Additionally, I didn't encourage him simply to abandon what he's got now, only to run a parallel test and make an informed decision. This is neither condescending nor hostile to anyone. It is simply good advice on how to perform a parallel test between two products.

Quote:

I think, since your software is supposed to be professionally written and not supposed to take interference from other plugins. If it is, then there is a question of the responsibility of (at least documenting) it.

Our software is professionally written to the highest standards and conforms to all the Eclipse conventions. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for all software on the market. Therefore, there may be interaction problems of which we're currently unaware. Since it is impossible to test with every possible plugin mutation currently available, we make suggestions to our users to install on a clean version of Eclipse since this is what we run our validation suites against. Once they're up and running in this configuration, they can then add more plugins, if desired, to further customize their environment; but at their own risk.

I hope that clears things up.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support
robvarga - Aug 22, 2003 - 04:36 PM
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scott wrote:
Quote:

Your company is being criticized on eclipse-plugins.2y.net guestbooks about being condescending and hostile to Lomboz.

I think you might be a little oversensitive. If you'll read the thread carefully, neither the original poster nor I mentioned any other products at all. Additionally, I didn't encourage him simply to abandon what he's got now, only to run a parallel test and make an informed decision. This is neither condescending nor hostile to anyone. It is simply good advice on how to perform a parallel test between two products.



I did not say you were condescending. In fact I stated, I don't claim you are. I just made a reference to the opinion of the posters on the mentioned website.

Unprofessional posting was meant as not considering every possible effect of the post, both for the user in case, and the impression it may leave in other readers. As far as only technical aspects are concerned, I agree that it was the best advice to be given to possibly isolate conflicts. However the user did not yet mention problems.

Therefore mentioning possible problems because of incompatibility on behalf of other plugins is just adding some new lines to chew on for those regarding your company as "condescending and hostile according to posts on several places, the mentioned website and eclipse forums included" (quoting posts from the mentioned website).

I think it was just needlessly inviting trouble, even though it probably was unintentional.

I don't think those claims really have ground, I just say and said that this mention about plugin soup may also be considered as condescending and hostile by those already looking at your company. I am definitely not among those.


scott wrote:
Quote:

I think, since your software is supposed to be professionally written and not supposed to take interference from other plugins. If it is, then there is a question of the responsibility of (at least documenting) it.

Our software is professionally written to the highest standards and conforms to all the Eclipse conventions. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for all software on the market. Therefore, there may be interaction problems of which we're currently unaware. Since it is impossible to test with every possible plugin mutation currently available, we make suggestions to our users to install on a clean version of Eclipse since this is what we run our validation suites against. Once they're up and running in this configuration, they can then add more plugins, if desired, to further customize their environment; but at their own risk.

I hope that clears things up.

--Scott
MyEclipse Support


IMHO, if specific problems are identified, it is the responsibility (to the community of users) of the person identifying the problem to document it, and post it somewhere.

If the cause of a problem is not identified then also no one should be blamed with it, until it turns out that he is the one making the fault.

Therefore if you (or anyone) know of a conflict, then document it. If it is not documented then it should not be blamed on anyone.

After all, if a bug is not found, it does not mean that it is not there at all.

And once it is documented, it is the user's responsibility to read that documented problem, and decide not to use either plugin participating in the conflict. Of course there are users who will not do it, and those can be faced with the fact that they are having a case of RTFM.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, I have to repeat that I am not among those who think that your company is condescending and hostile to other plugins. I just tried to give my opinion on what impressions that post might leave in other users.

Regards,

Robert
wayne - Aug 23, 2003 - 09:01 AM
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Hi Robert,

Thanks for your constructive feedback. Our goals are to provide quality products and services in an efficient respectful business like manner. Constructive feedback enables us to improve our practices and better meet these goals. As you mentioned a challenge we have faced recently has been a misinterpretation of our enthusiasm and unwavering statements of commitment to keep moving forward (no arrogance intended :) ) in the face of a negative campaign initiated by a few outspoken and persistent individuals that have taken issue with MyEclipse existence.

I can assure you that Scott meant no disrespect in this support case with his choice of words. Support is a frequently trying and thankless activity and Scott does a great job. For trial users we encourage MyEclipse evaluations be performed in a clean environment. Lastly if we learn of incompatibilities between plugins we will definitely document them for it serves to reduce our support load.

Regards,

Wayne Parrott
MyEclipse Product Manager
rdean400 - Aug 24, 2003 - 05:04 AM
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I saw the comments in question on eclipse-plugins.2y.net and I have to say there have been a few times where I thought the MyEclipse/Genuitec poster could have used words that were a lot less harsh towards competing products or people who question the price of MyEclipse (which is reasonable, but I'm on Eclipse 3.0M2 (Eclipse 2.1.1 on Linux/GTK has some serious bugs that were just plain annoying) now and didn't get a good enough look at MyEclipse to judge how well it fit into my environment). However, I've never felt that way looking at any of Scott's postings.
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